an interview with Jonathan Kuttab

bitterlemons: What is your immediate reaction to talk in Israeli circles about formally applying the Fourth Geneva Convention to the occupied territories?

Kuttab: My immediate reaction is that Israel has been in violation of the Geneva Conventions since 1967, but that Israel is currently under international pressure, largely because of the case [on the wall] that was brought before the International Court of Justice (ICJ), to try and bring its actions a little more into compliance with international law. I think Israel is afraid of being in the position of a pariah state, like South Africa was.

bitterlemons: Is this largely a legal or diplomatic move?

There are two issues here. There is the political and public relations dimension and there is the legal dimension. The legal dimension is a little problematic, because the ICJ does not have any mechanism to implement its decisions. It is only a question of public relations and how a country is viewed among other nations. The power to impose sanctions for violations of international law is vested with the UN Security Council under Chapter 7, and Israel is assured of a US veto whenever such a threat arises.

However, in the case of South Africa where sanctions were initially not applied because of the US and British veto, there was a groundswell of grassroots actions such as boycotts, withdrawal of investments as well as a public relations campaign which in the end succeeded in bringing an end to apartheid and the regime of racism in South Africa.

Israel does not wish to be in this position, and therefore it has undertaken an aggressive public relations campaign to attempt to appear to be at least in some compliance with international law in order to avoid such a groundswell of popular sentiment against it as a violator of international law.

bitterlemons: If Israel was to officially accept that the Geneva Conventions applied to the occupied territories wouldn't that undermine its case vis-a-vis the status of those territories?

Kuttab: Of course it would. There are consequences to such acceptance. I think they will try to pretend to accept the Geneva Convention by giving their own interpretation of it that takes the spirit out of it. For example, for a long time they've said that while they don't accept the de jure applicability of the convention they voluntarily comply with the "humanitarian provisions" of the convention without of course saying what these are. So to the uninformed they appear to be in compliance and the issue of non-compliance becomes a political rather than a legal issue. Then they can say, as they often do, that the United Nations is always against them, there is an automatic majority, and therefore they don't have to listen to the UN.

Now they are faced with the ICJ, which is not a political but a judicial body. So they are feeling pressure to take some action or say some words and improve the appearance of compliance. Of course, Israel has not said it will accept the convention, it has also not said it will take specific action based on such acceptance. There was only a suggestion to study the idea of complying with the convention. I think once they look at the practical consequences of such a step, they will realize that it requires a radical change in their policies on many levels, including of course the whole issue of the legality of the settlements, the changes on the ground that they have and continue to carry out, the refusal to abolish collective punishment which is totally prohibited under the Geneva Conventions, the restrictions on the level of changes they can make to the legal structure in the occupied territories. There are just too many issues they would have to deal with if they were to seriously accept the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

bitterlemons: So you think it's more of a public relations exercise than anything serious?

Kuttab: I certainly suspect so.

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- Published 20/9/2004 (c) bitterlemons.org. Used here with permission.

Jonathan Kuttab is a human rights attorney and on the board of al Haq organization, which deals with legal issues related to human rights.